Curse

enishicz · Feb 15, 2008, 12:56 AM // 00:56

The Charr race is a symbolism of American imperialism in the modern day. Americans are war hungry and xenophobic who treat those different from them like sh*t. They both employ dirty tricks to get what they want (land for Charr and oil for Americans). duh

But as an American, I hear everyday that people use religious or philosophical rationale to justify this, perhaps the Charr uses the Titans to justify their thirst for power.

enishicz · Feb 15, 2008, 01:00 AM // 01:00

How are humans any less evil than the Charr? the Roman Empire enjoyed fierce gladiator battles between enslaved men and beasts (duke gaban vs devourer anyone?) We eat chicken, Charr eats us, what's the difference? Charrs employ traps and tricks and have no honor? there is no honor on the battle field my friends, ever heard of a little book called "The Art of War"?

Numa Pompilius · Feb 15, 2008, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

That's precisely what the Charr do, though (eating/torturing/etc prisoners; Gwen's BMP mission took place where they were feeding prisoners to a devourer from memory). It is pretty much as low as you can go.

You can actually go lower: you can not take prisoners at all. Which appear to be the ascalonian policy toeards charr.

Also, even assuming that Charr females look like Charr males, like with the Dwarves, there should still be Charr pups, Charr livestock, perhaps Charr crops (if they eat vegetables). I don't think we've seen anything of civilian Charr society, we've only seen warbands and warcamps.

Furthermore, Charr society is - judging by naming conventions - clan-based, which is typically associated with warlike societies where infighting, raiding, and blood feuds are common.

Basically the Charr are primitive, and like all primitives their lives are, in the words of Hobbes, "poor, nasty, brutish, and short".

But inherently evil? No.

darc-smasher · Mar 22, 2008, 10:49 PM // 22:49

The charr's leader was hinted to be suicidal and crazy, maybe that was why they attacked tyria etc. As for the honor bit, they do look at humans as weaker and smaller and were probably trained in a manor to kill without thinking and such, and unlike the orcs they have inteligence. I think that calling them evil would be from the human perspective of them not by there's or other races.

draxynnic · Mar 25, 2008, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

You can actually go lower: you can not take prisoners at all. Which appear to be the ascalonian policy towards charr.

That may be opportunity rather than choice. Apart from possibly the Ebon Vanguard, I don't think any Ascalonian has seen a non-military Charr in the time period covered by the game - and guerilla warfare isn't really conducive to taking many prisoners. Even before the Wall fell, Ascalon has been on the defensive, and that doesn't provide nearly so many opportunities to take prisoners as going out and rampaging through the other side's cities does.

Besides, considering the way the Charr treat their prisoners, they may have a 'better to die than be taken prisoner' attitude.

And even with all that, there may be confinement locations for Charr POWs that we don't see in the game.

creelie · Mar 25, 2008, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I do think they wish to conquer the world of Tyria, despite their respect of Norn and Asura, I don't think this would stop them from going to war against either race if it suited their purposes.

I know the Charr respect the Norn, but how do we know what they think of the Asura? I can think of exactly one instance where a Charr appears to know the Asura exist at all: the Polymock-playing Dune Teardrinker refers to them as "those big-eared creatures". I can't think of any other cases where a Charr speaks to an Asura directly or talks about the race in general. Same with the Norn. Given that both races view humans as fairly small and weak, what do they think of a race knee-high to humans that is obsessed with machinery?

draxynnic · Mar 26, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by creelie

I know the Charr respect the Norn, but how do we know what they think of the Asura? I can think of exactly one instance where a Charr appears to know the Asura exist at all: the Polymock-playing Dune Teardrinker refers to them as "those big-eared creatures". I can't think of any other cases where a Charr speaks to an Asura directly or talks about the race in general. Same with the Norn. Given that both races view humans as fairly small and weak, what do they think of a race knee-high to humans that is obsessed with machinery?

That they're useful to have around?

According to the future histories we've seen, the Asura have been maintaining a strict neutrality policy while providing gates to all the major cities. The more warlike races may mock them behind their proverbial backs for being small and wimpy, but they're too valuable to insult to their faces. (From a Charr's viewpoint... would you risk antagonising them and having them side with the humans? Mark Whatever G.O.L.E.M.s are probably scary enough without considering what strategic advantages exclusive use of the gate network might provide...)

Gmr Leon · Mar 26, 2008, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

You know, I do find this thing about the Charr being antagonistic towards all gods, even before the rise of the Shaman caste, to be interesting. Did they get burned by godlike entities - possibly these dragons - before they even encountered humanity? Are they so embarassed about having been defeated by "mice" the first time around that they rationalise to themselves that it had to be due to divine backing, even though according to history it was humanity that had upset the balance that the gods had originally estabolished, a balance that presumably included a space for the Charr? Or are the Charr just that vicious, aggressive, and possibly paranoid that they see anything that could possibly compete with them for the position of top of the food chain as a foe to be destroyed... implying that the pseudo-alliance with the Norn is simply a convenience while the Charr have bigger fish to fry?

Error!

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ecology of the Charr

Before the time of the humans, it is said the Charr had no gods, no concept of divine beings with more power than themselves. They knew of Melandru, and even had legends that described how she created the world. But to the Charr, these beings were not to be worshiped or feared–they were to be fought, and if possible, destroyed. Yet when the Charr saw the humans worshiping gods–and receiving power from them–they blamed this power for the humans’ victory. Only with such powers on their side could the humans have ever defeated the Charr.

Basically they detest the humans for worshiping such beings.

Konig Des Todes · Mar 27, 2008, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

Error!

Basically they detest the humans for worshiping such beings.

So, what your getting at, is that Charr don't hate humans for taking half their lands, don't find them inferior, and don't find them good to eat. The reason why Charr attack humans, is for the fact that humans worship the 5*now 6* gods? Then why don't they hate norn for their nature spirits, or the Asuran for their religion, or any other race for their own personal religion.

creelie · Mar 27, 2008, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Well they don't detest humans *just* for worshipping such beings. They also think humans are cowardly land-thieves who are potentially delicious.

Free Runner · Mar 27, 2008, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

So, what your getting at, is that Charr don't hate humans for taking half their lands, don't find them inferior, and don't find them good to eat. The reason why Charr attack humans, is for the fact that humans worship the 5*now 6* gods? Then why don't they hate norn for their nature spirits, or the Asuran for their religion, or any other race for their own personal religion.

From the passage Gmr quoted it seems more like they detest all gods however they hate the gods the humans worship even more due to the fact they believe they were responsible for the power that defeated them in the first place. They of course hate humans for some of the reasons you put but i think their problem with the gods is their main reason.

Konig Des Todes · Mar 27, 2008, 10:20 PM // 22:20

I think the land being conquered is the main reason and the gods being the second reason. I know that the gods is the reason why the Charr adopted the Titans, and later the Destroyers, as gods, but I wouldn't say it is the main reason why the Charr hate humans.

Gmr Leon · Mar 27, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Charr hate the human Gods for blessing them and see them as weak because without being blessed with magic they probably would have ended up extinct. Of course they hate the humans for the simple reasons of weak, inferiority, and stealing half of their land in the Ascalon region.

I wasn't very clear in my post, I was trying to display one of their main reasons for detesting the Gods. My apologies for that.

distilledwill · Apr 04, 2008, 01:13 PM // 13:13

I imagine that the Charr that will be playable in GW2 will be portrayed as those who have rejected the false gods (and any gods, for that matter). That leaves them open to have both "evil" Charr - those that still follow some kind of malevolent "god" - and "good" Charr - the playable, secular race.

They will likely be embittered and wary of other races, but just as the human race is split and so has wars between different factions, so can the charr.

Morally, neither are evil and neither are good. The Charr only did what any country nowadays would do if it wanted to conquer a county... bomb/sear it into oblivion. Its a matter of perspective.

Konig Des Todes · Apr 04, 2008, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

I imagine that the Charr that will be playable in GW2 will be portrayed as those who have rejected the false gods (and any gods, for that matter). That leaves them open to have both "evil" Charr - those that still follow some kind of malevolent "god" - and "good" Charr - the playable, secular race.

They will likely be embittered and wary of other races, but just as the human race is split and so has wars between different factions, so can the charr.

Morally, neither are evil and neither are good. The Charr only did what any country nowadays would do if it wanted to conquer a county... bomb/sear it into oblivion. Its a matter of perspective.

1) All charr by gw2 time reject ALL gods. So no "good" and "evil" charr idea with that, unless they have the gold/fire legion worshiping the dragons.

2)As said in the article Ecology of the Charr, the Charr are constantly attacking any threat to them, within and without. But, I believe that recently the Charr have begun to stablize as a single race *I need to re-read that article*.

Chexer · Apr 27, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

I think it says alot that the Charr would so easily kill off Pyre for speaking out against the shamans, who were already wrong about giant walking fire beasts once.

Pyre should have some importance to the charr because of his family. One of his band members calls him the son of Vatlaaw. I have to assume that finding a way around the wall and uniting the Grawl against humanity makes Vatlaaw a sort of hero, or something.

Free Runner · Apr 27, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chexer

I think it says alot that the Charr would so easily kill off Pyre for speaking out against the shamans, who were already wrong about giant walking fire beasts once.

To them it would be speak out against the Shamans and die or kill off Pyre and live. Most of the Charr probably dont care and some dont want to be involved in the feud at all (Torg Bloodspine for example)

Mark Nevermiss · Apr 27, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Its ironic though that the Charr who view humans as "weak" and "prey" and "meat" beg the same puny creatures to purge the Cathedral of Flames of those nasty undead, who wiped the floor with them, to get a precious treasure which they would use to buy off their freedom in case they were recaptured and our puny selves werent there to free their sorry asses again.

illidan009 · May 19, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

No culture would consider themselves "evil" by definition, but they could commit acts that are despised by others... IMO Charrs can go to hell.

imnotyourmother · May 27, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Spoiler

It would seen that I read somewhere that in G2 we will be able to be a charr toon. That should unravel some of the interesting dynamics of the game.

What if in g2 we get to be the baddies and in g3 we get to be anyone that we want for the domination of all lands.